troubles with ignition 123, Dead dizzy got me dizzy Options

[wbgoggans]

I purchased a 123 Tune-4-R-V-V distributor after hearing all the ranting and raving about it here (and on a few other forums). Using some of the detailed posts on this site, I was able to get my motor fired up on the stand with the 123 — but after less than five minutes of run time, while I was tweaking a fuel line, I suddenly heard the Bluetooth disconnect.

When I checked the distributor, there was no blue light and no green light under the rotor. I reached out to Ed at 123 Ignition, who was very helpful and suggested I send the distributor in for warranty repair.

Once Ed received it, he found that the board inside the distributor was completely dead. He replaced the board and shipped it back to me. I reinstalled it Sunday night and began statically timing the motor — and then after 10 minutes or so this time without even getting to hear my motor run my dizzy is dead with the same symptoms as before.

Ed has kindly offered to replace the board again, but after already spending $50 in shipping to and from Ohio and waiting two weeks, I’m not eager to repeat the process without knowing why this keeps happening. At this point, I have a $600 paperweight and no clear explanation and no hope that replacing the board again will give me a different result.

So, I’m hoping to tap into the collective brainpower of 914World to figure this out. I’ve already tested my coil and will be sending Ed photos of my run setup tomorrow.

If anyone has suggestions or ideas on what could be frying the dizzy, please let me know — I’m happy to provide any details or photos that might help diagnose the issue.

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Ishley]

I have the same distributor and it works great after 3 years. I have friends who run them on other car types too and it works for them.

One place to look is the log file. The 123 bluetooth version creates a log file on your phone every time its communicating with your distributor. The log file is in the "files" area on an Iphone and it contains some data points that might be useful. You can mail the file to your computer and drop it into excel if you have those skills.

Some of the data that might point you to the issue includes;

Date Time
Temp
Charging volts
Coil Current

There is more/other data.. take a look at it.

It posts data to the file every couple of seconds while connected. If your distributor is getting fried, this may point you to the solution.

I did a post about data logging a while ago...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry3224369


Just a thought.

[wbgoggans]

I have the same distributor and it works great after 3 years. I have friends who run them on other car types too and it works for them.

One place to look is the log file. The 123 bluetooth version creates a log file on your phone every time its communicating with your distributor. The log file is in the "files" area on an Iphone and it contains some data points that might be useful. You can mail the file to your computer and drop it into excel if you have those skills.

Some of the data that might point you to the issue includes;

Date Time
Temp
Charging volts
Coil Current

There is more/other data.. take a look at it.

It posts data to the file every couple of seconds while connected. If your distributor is getting fried, this may point you to the solution.

I did a post about data logging a while ago...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;#entry3224369


Just a thought.

Thank you for your response. I have looked through the files section on my iPhone and through the 123 app and can not seem to find any data files. Voltage would have been very nice to see, but it looks like there's no luck there.

[Ishley]

That’s unfortunate. I have a folder called 123\Tune+ and 3 sub folders below that. I wonder why that is. One of the sub folders contains the data… with the last 5 connections worth of logged data. Maybe they are hidden for some reason. I don’t recall doing anything special but I could have. I wonder if anyone else with a Bluetooth 123 has the same issue.

[wbgoggans]

That’s unfortunate. I have a folder called 123\Tune+ and 3 sub folders below that. I wonder why that is. One of the sub folders contains the data… with the last 5 connections worth of logged data. Maybe they are hidden for some reason. I don’t recall doing anything special but I could have. I wonder if anyone else with a Bluetooth 123 has the same issue.

upon further investigation I have been able to find my data log files. i am inclduing the last logs from the second time the dizzy died.
9:30:23:923;Trace;;09:30:23.923 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: Idle;
09:30:23:923;Trace;;09:30:23.923 [DataService]:ReadStaticSettings settings read;
09:30:25:915;Trace;;09:30:25.915 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: ServiceCommand;
09:30:26:490;Trace;;09:30:26.490 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: Idle;
09:30:26:547;Error;;09:30:26.546 [DataService]:ERROR: Command ReadSettings failed: cancelled 1500;
09:30:26:574;Trace;;09:30:26.574 [DataService]:ReadStaticSettings settings read;
09:57:02:035;Trace;;09:57:02.035 [MainTabbedPage]:OnCurrentPageChanged: Curves;
09:57:02:637;Trace;;09:57:02.637 [MainTabbedPage]:OnCurrentPageChanged: Dashboard;

[wbgoggans]

That’s unfortunate. I have a folder called 123\Tune+ and 3 sub folders below that. I wonder why that is. One of the sub folders contains the data… with the last 5 connections worth of logged data. Maybe they are hidden for some reason. I don’t recall doing anything special but I could have. I wonder if anyone else with a Bluetooth 123 has the same issue.

upon further investigation I have been able to find my data log files. i am inclduing the last logs from the second time the dizzy died.
9:30:23:923;Trace;;09:30:23.923 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: Idle;
09:30:23:923;Trace;;09:30:23.923 [DataService]:ReadStaticSettings settings read;
09:30:25:915;Trace;;09:30:25.915 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: ServiceCommand;
09:30:26:490;Trace;;09:30:26.490 [TunePlus]:Tune state====================>: Idle;
09:30:26:547;Error;;09:30:26.546 [DataService]:ERROR: Command ReadSettings failed: cancelled 1500;
09:30:26:574;Trace;;09:30:26.574 [DataService]:ReadStaticSettings settings read;
09:57:02:035;Trace;;09:57:02.035 [MainTabbedPage]:OnCurrentPageChanged: Curves;
09:57:02:637;Trace;;09:57:02.637 [MainTabbedPage]:OnCurrentPageChanged: Dashboard;

##;##
@123Tune+ Data log
TimeStamp;CurveNr;RPM;Advance;Vacuum;Temperature;CoilCurrent;Voltage;ShiftLightA
ctive;GPSms;raw
09:25:04:499;1;0000;00.0;-01.00;-01.00;+00.00;0.0;0.0;0;0;
09:25:04:499;1;0000;00.0;-01.00;-01.00;+00.00;0.0;0.0;0;0;v@

[emerygt350]

Have you double checked your polarity? It's pretty easy to hook it to the wrong sides of the coil, or use a bad/wrong coil

[dtmehall]

maybe i shouldn't state the obvious, but couldn't this be laid right on the feet of sH**ty quality of current chinese electronics ?

[wbgoggans]

Have you double checked your polarity? It's pretty easy to hook it to the wrong sides of the coil, or use a bad/wrong coil

I am running a Beru blue ignition coil purchased from LN engineering. When I measured the resistance of the coil it was 03.3 ohms. I do not believe the coil is the issue but if anyone has any suggestions on any further test to rule it out please let me know.

[wbgoggans]

maybe i shouldn't state the obvious, but couldn't this be laid right on the feet of sH**ty quality of current chinese electronics ?

123 Ignition has an excellent reputation for reliability among this forum and others. I am trying to use this forum to help me brainstorm different ways I could cause the dizzy to fail via user error before I blame what seems to be a very reliable well made product. I should probably just keep it simple and go with points however if at all possible I would love to run this ignition 123 system not just because I have already spent $600 on this product but because it has an outstanding reputation for totally transforming the performance on many 914's.

[Superhawk996]

If I’m reading correctly this is occurring on a test stand?

Thoughts:
Do you have the voltage regulator wired up? What is the supply voltage to the dizzy? No mention here what voltage you’re running at.

Are you running the battery as part of the circuit? Alternators output & voltage stability isn’t good without a battery in the circuit.

Are your voltage supply & ground wires to the dizzy very close or touching the spark plug wires where they can have high voltages spikes induced into the dizzy wiring?

Post photos

[wbgoggans]

If I’m reading correctly this is occurring on a test stand?

Thoughts:
Do you have the voltage regulator wired up? What is the supply voltage to the dizzy? No mention here what voltage you’re running at.

Are you running the battery as part of the circuit? Alternators output & voltage stability isn’t good without a battery in the circuit.

Are your voltage supply & ground wires to the dizzy very close or touching the spark plug wires where they can have high voltages spikes induced into the dizzy wiring?

Post photos

you are correct the engine is on a test stand or ummm jack stands. I am not running an alternator belt therefore I am under the impression a voltage regulator is not needed. I am running my wires straight off an optima redtop battery. I think you are probably on the right path in assuming some form of voltage spike. I will try take photos of my set up tomorrow morning when I get to my shop. please let me know what all you would like to see.

[wbgoggans]

If I’m reading correctly this is occurring on a test stand?

Thoughts:
Do you have the voltage regulator wired up? What is the supply voltage to the dizzy? No mention here what voltage you’re running at.

Are you running the battery as part of the circuit? Alternators output & voltage stability isn’t good without a battery in the circuit.

Are your voltage supply & ground wires to the dizzy very close or touching the spark plug wires where they can have high voltages spikes induced into the dizzy wiring?

Post photos

you are correct the engine is on a test stand or ummm jack stands. I am not running an alternator belt therefore I am under the impression a voltage regulator is not needed. I am running my wires straight off an optima redtop battery. I think you are probably on the right path in assuming some form of voltage spike. I will try take photos of my set up tomorrow morning when I get to my shop. please let me know what all you would like to see.

[chmillman]

I am running a Beru blue ignition coil purchased from LN engineering. When I measured the resistance of the coil it was 03.3 ohms. I do not believe the coil is the issue but if anyone has any suggestions on any further test to rule it out please let me know.

Dunno, when I had my 123 installed, the guy said the original Bosch blue coil wouldn’t work with it so he put in a new black one. Too late to go down and look what it is but it might be a 1.5 ohm coil?

[yeahmag]

Just an idiot check. From the website:

wiring: red = +6V or +12V, black = '-' coil, blue = ground

I don't think it would survive wiring it wrong at all, but who knows. As far as voltage spikes, if you are on the battery only and the battery isn't on a charger it's pretty unlikely to be the problem. Certainly checking the voltage at different points and making sure the ground is good will go a long way to eliminating the possibilities. If the ground lifts, you may have issues. I did with my Mallory Unilite a few times...

[FlacaProductions]

123 site says Coil:"stock or High Energy coil, primary coil NOT below 1,0 ohm"

Also gives the opportunity to add to the purchase with a "Epoxy Coil 3.0 Ohm Epoxy Coil For 4 Cyl"

[emerygt350]

I don't have experience with the bluetooth version but the one I have seems really robust to all the weird stuff I do to my engine. I do bet power spikes or maybe even extended low voltage might do something, no idea. They really do seem to be built to take a lot of abuse. Now, the wrong coil, or maybe a coil that is shorting might be the ticket. I have my original coil and it was doing weird stuff to both the 123 and my original dizzy, I thought it was ok but when you would hook a timing light to the car with that black bosch coil, wow. All kinds of strange.

[wbgoggans]

Ed has said my coil should not be an issue. what might cause a coil to short?

As far grounding I am using a large jumper wire clamped from the negative terminal of my battery to the trans similarly to how it would be in the car. Do y'all think this could be insufficient? I must admit I am quite ignorant on the basics of electronics.

[mate914]

Ed has said my coil should not be an issue. what might cause a coil to short?

As far grounding I am using a large jumper wire clamped from the negative terminal of my battery to the trans similarly to how it would be in the car. Do y'all think this could be insufficient? I must admit I am quite ignorant on the basics of electronics.

Why is there no alternator? Wire in as factory. Your adding road blocks that are not needed. 123 dizzy is very easy to install. Poor grounding will do all sorts of weird things..
Matt

[Superhawk996]

Ed has said my coil should not be an issue. what might cause a coil to short?

As far grounding I am using a large jumper wire clamped from the negative terminal of my battery to the trans similarly to how it would be in the car. Do y'all think this could be insufficient? I must admit I am quite ignorant on the basics of electronics.

Jumper cable for grounding isn’t the best plan. Engine is going to vibrate and you may be crating some sort of intermittent ground.

When there isn’t a good ground crazy things happen. I’d bolt a ground cable to the engine or trans to ensure a solid ground.

With just battery and no alternator that gets rid of over voltage and voltage regulation issues as you stated.

Make sure you don’t have a 12v feed draped over or touching spark plug wires.

How are you attaching the +12v from battery?