Is AI Limiting The Knowledge Base On 914 World? Options

[Osnabruck914]

Might just be me, but it sure seems like since the ramp up of Artificial Intelligence, especially in the last six months or so, the number of new threads on 914World Garage Forum has dropped off. If true, is it because Google searches on questions about our cars are now routinely answered by the the Google AI component at the beginning of the search results presented, often negating the need to start a new thread on the World? I'm not saying the Google AI answers are foolproof by any means, but quite often they are spot on, and use the exact verbiage of what posters have previously written on the form.

This is concerning, because if true, it is essentially putting a cap on the online knowledge base the administrators and contributors to the site have created. If we all begin to rely solely on AI availability, then new perspectives, methods, repair tricks, etc. will never be generated and added to the knowledge base.

I guess Andy and Co. can confirm or debunk my suspicions, by looking at statistics on new posts. I certainly hope I am wrong about all of this.

Osnabruck914

[rjames]

My experience with AI is very hit or miss. I work in IT and so far, my experience has been that it's only fully accurate ~50% of the time. 25% it's somewhat correct, and the other 25% it's just flat out wrong.

AI is only as good what goes into it. There is a lot of incorrect information in many of the threads on the 914world site. Even if the last post in a given thread gets it right, all of the other info still gets ingested by AI.

I'm sure Andy could give the actual stats regarding the number of new threads over time, but the new thread count feels about the same to me as it has for the last several years. However, I do see some newer 914 owners that are using Facebook groups to search for answers. Realistically, there should be fewer posts here over time- at least as far as the 'how to' posts go. Just about everything has probably been covered multiple times and can be found via a search. The Knowledge Base On 914 World is BIG.

...and fuch AI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

[worn]

My

...and fuch AI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Nobody asked for it but some Benjamin’s. Not to include actual humans named Benjamin. No, the paper ones.

[NotLance]

From a non-professional college kid experience (Because I think that is a fairly uncommon perspective on this forum):


Nothing has disintegrated the common sense and work ethic of as much as AI has in the average college student.

I constantly am fighting against lab partners who AI their sections of memos, redoing paragraphs of others work to make sure the work doesn't trigger as AI written. It honestly has caused me more work, not less (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It has proved useful for basic queries, but I would hesitate to use it for anything requiring even an ounce of cognitive function when it comes to something I am submitting as a part of my college repertoire.

The lack of source and peer reviewed work makes it entirely useless in my engineering studies.

Is it convenient as a better search engine than chrome, perhaps. Anything that I would search "____" with reddit, like "which banoffee recipe is the best reddit" tends to yield decent results

I don't hate it at all, just think it is over- and mis-used in the college environment to avoid true learning.

Oh and never trusted it with a question as important as what to do with my car... 914's are mythological creatures only to be handled with extreme delicacy. If mine caught wind of me trying to fix it with fancy computer knowledge instead of knowledge from the tribe I think it would turn into a pumpkin...

[chmillman]

I'm not particularly worried - for the moment. Certainly, you might get good answers to simple questions using Google's AI-powered search for a simple question, one that has been discussed a certain number of times on various forums with consistent answers. For example, I asked Google for the torque spec on the oil strainer nut:



The "copper washer" item was interesting, I have also seen this in several places, but the crush washers for under the nut that come from my suppliers are aluminum.

I also asked ChatGPT for how much to torque my Fuchs wheels and whether I should use anti-seize or not:

https://chatgpt.com/share/692ff73a-e4f4-800...45-a012ccf75503

Interesting, it got the torque value right of course, but it couldn't really exclude the use of anti-sieze, it just said there's no evidence in the factory manuals of it being recommended...

All that aside, people come here for much more complex questions, often related to their particular car or some modification/restoration issue. These kind of questions still need human eyes, analysis and experience to respond - often with other questions - and AI agents are (currently) just not capable of that.

Plus, this is indeed a social place - where real humans come together and interact around a subject that they are passionate about - and no AI can match that*. Much of the fun here is not just getting questions answered, it's the sharing of experiences and storytelling. Often the tangent discussions that happen spontaneously are more interesting than the original question. Plus the nice (human) feeling of having helped a fellow 'teener lover get his or her car problem sorted out. It's what we call a "community". It's a living thing.

OTOH, the 90's forum format here just does not do it for the scroll 'n swipe generation... Which is why maybe people go looking for answers on Facebook and company. It fits their modus operandi better. I'm typing this on an old-fashioned computer keyboard, I would never do this on my phone. But I'm an old guy...

Anyway, here's to continued human interaction here!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

*Well, there are stories of people having romantic relationships with ChatGPT, using it as their personal psychologist etc... So who knows?

[wonkipop]

From a non-professional college kid experience (Because I think that is a fairly uncommon perspective on this forum):


Nothing has disintegrated the common sense and work ethic of as much as AI has in the average college student.

I constantly am fighting against lab partners who AI their sections of memos, redoing paragraphs of others work to make sure the work doesn't trigger as AI written. It honestly has caused me more work, not less (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

It has proved useful for basic queries, but I would hesitate to use it for anything requiring even an ounce of cognitive function when it comes to something I am submitting as a part of my college repertoire.

The lack of source and peer reviewed work makes it entirely useless in my engineering studies.

Is it convenient as a better search engine than chrome, perhaps. Anything that I would search "____" with reddit, like "which banoffee recipe is the best reddit" tends to yield decent results

I don't hate it at all, just think it is over- and mis-used in the college environment to avoid true learning.

Oh and never trusted it with a question as important as what to do with my car... 914's are mythological creatures only to be handled with extreme delicacy. If mine caught wind of me trying to fix it with fancy computer knowledge instead of knowledge from the tribe I think it would turn into a pumpkin...

what you are saying in a nutshell is that AI is plagiarism.

i used to be a college kid (or as we say in north antarctica- a uni student) 2/3 of a lifetime ago. and i have been and kind of still am a professional as a result of that uni student experience. you don't have to apologize for the position you give your view from. you are dead right.

its artificial. but its not intelligence.
its actually a condensation of the past regurgitated as vomit projected into the present.
same old, same old but coming at you with maximum velocity.

intelligence is something else. its a spark that ignites the future.
or at least suggests a way around a problem.
lateral thinking.

i don't care what anyone says - the human brain way outclasses a tropical island full of servers churning.

because............
the human mind is skeptical. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[emerygt350]

I just graded 33 papers for my epidemiology class. Over half were AI, and a few were 100% AI. Sigh. This was just yesterday so I am still considering what to do about it.

As far as the forum activity... Winter in the northern hemisphere often reduces activity on the forums.

[Spoke]

I just graded 33 papers for my epidemiology class. Over half were AI, and a few were 100% AI. Sigh. This was just yesterday so I am still considering what to do about it.

So are the students learning the material when using AI? Seems that would be a concern.

When doing papers, isn't it common to list your references especially if quoted word for word? If that's still a thing, wouldn't it be responsible to list using AI and also which AI engine was used?

[tomeric914]

At my former place of employment, we were encouraged to write emails using AI. I didn't do it, but maybe it was helpful for those who didn't have the knowledge to compose an email? OTOH, if they need AI to write an email, maybe they're in the wrong profession?

The other possibility is that they wanted us to use AI in an attempt to build a database of answers so they could reduce headcount (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I will say that I used AI once to create a 10 question quiz using the content of a PowerPoint presentation that I created and it was eerily accurate and very good. Took AI all of 30 seconds to create something that would have taken me much longer to do. So with good content, AI can create good results.

If I see Sarah Connor running down the street in my time on this planet, I'll know that AI has gone too far.

[Shivers]

I find AI pig headed. Once it thinks it has the answer it sticks to it
Even if I rephrase the question with more info, it will not budge. I will
go off and find the answer in a more traditional way and wish I could
share that with AI. But then it would end up as reliable as Wikipedia.

[GregAmy]

It's possible that AI is stopping people from coming here, just as any Google search would.

But the answers to any complex or nuanced questions will undoubtedly have them coming here for answers...and in much worse shape. Much as asking on Facebook would (does).

AI can be very good...and it can be very bad. I personally do not use it because of the lack of nuance. And knowing the value of this forum I would never consider using AI for advice on a 914. Maybe someday...but not today.

And in the end, a good chunk of the value and enjoyment of this hobby is the human interaction. I wouldn't do this (or amateur racing) if I was alone. - GA

[Steve]

I don’t think it’s AI. I think we are slowly losing members. Even before AI, threads are taking over a week to move to the second page. Maybe the admins can do a trend analysis. Not enough young people interested in these cars and the old farts are dying off. I’m seeing the same thing with the air cooled 911 crowd. There cars and coffee looks like a rest home. Present company included.

[sixnotfour]

goggle inquiry with 914world Brings back to World with some history on topic..has been the best for me ..Most ai stuff is less than perfect so far for me..

[VaccaRabite]

I work for the federal govt, and the current administration is pushing AI HARD. So now I have accounts with three different AI tools, and I need to know how to proficiently use them.

Which is fine. For the past 6 months or so I've been using it more for almost anything I can think of.

Right now, what I've found is that for general information, AI is pretty good. For helping wrap your head around a problem, AI is pretty good. For conceptualizing ideas, AI is pretty good. It helps focus your research, and it make mundane tasks faster.

HOWEVER.

Once you get past generalities, you need to be careful. I've asked ChatGPT to develop EFI systems for air-cooled engines, including detailed breakdowns of wiring and detailed lists of all the parts needed for the work as well as where to get them. The list included radiators and coolant plumbing fittings.

Is that an automatic fail? No. Most of the list was pretty good, and as a thought experiment it was pretty impressive. But you have to be willing to use critical thinking when using AI, and not just accept the output as your answer.

Back in college, I had this incredible professor that let us know a secret. We were not in college to learn everything - that is impossible. We were in college to learn how to find anything. How to gather knowledge and use it. AI makes a good tool.

IMO, AI should be being used at the college level as a tool for research. But turning in papers written by AI is plagiarism, and should be treated as such. I know this an issue that many colleges are currently facing.

And here is another thing - that makes me glad to be middle age now. By about the time I'm looking at retirement in a decade or so, AI is going to be gutting most white collar jobs. There will be new types of jobs that open up - there always are - but its going to be rough for younger Millennials I bet as they get into their 50s.

Zach

[Montreal914]

I don’t think it’s AI. I think we are slowly losing members. Even before AI, threads are taking over a week to move to the second page. Maybe the admins can do a trend analysis. Not enough young people interested in these cars and the old farts are dying off.

I think Steve is right. The Garage and Classifieds threads has gone down a lot. It used to be the race in the morning to see what new FS add had been placed. This morning, one new add.

Also, daily driven 914s are fewer and fewer with the weekend driven ones being more and more in restored shape not requiring as much attention maybe (garage queens)?

Keeping those cheap cars alive for minimal investment was bringing all sorts of low cost creativity that has left room for the more costly now available reproduction parts which can be justidied due to vehicle value increase. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)