Starting Problems Options

[nmkimosabe]

I drove my 1974 1.8 briefly after sitting for two months in the winter. It drove fine for the mile or so. I went to drive it the next day and didn't get too far before it chugged, jerked and then died. Had it towed back to my house. Inspected all the vacuum hoses, electrical connections and cleaned the air flow sensor and plug. Starts for a few seconds at times and then dies. Other times it won't even start. Had new plugs, points and fuel filter installed about 10 months ago. I can hear the hum of the fuel pump, so I don't think it's that. Mechanic can't see it for two weeks and I would like to get it running. I would appreciate hearing from the 914 community about similar issues. Thanks.

[Ishley]

Start simple. Fuel, Timing and Spark. I suspect fuel based on the description... but impossible to diagnose with this data. A video might help.

I assume you are running fuel injection? Pull an injector... and the coil wire. have someone crank the engine while you hold a glass under the injector to see if you are getting a good spray pattern. That is where I would start given what you have checked so far. If it's fuel... then a new filter would be my next move.

[FlacaProductions]

where is the new filter? if it's under the tank, check for a kinked hose from when it got put back in.

[nmkimosabe]

Start simple. Fuel, Timing and Spark. I suspect fuel based on the description... but impossible to diagnose with this data. A video might help.

I assume you are running fuel injection? Pull an injector... and the coil wire. have someone crank the engine while you hold a glass under the injector to see if you are getting a good spray pattern. That is where I would start given what you have checked so far. If it's fuel... then a new filter would be my next move.

Thanks Ed. I'm pretty sure it's not getting gas because it just doesn't want to start and just cranks. I think it's a really clogged filter or bad pump. I put my hand around the pump while the car was cranked, and I couldn't feel it running. Here's a pic of the fuel pump and it looks like the original one?

[nmkimosabe]

Start simple. Fuel, Timing and Spark. I suspect fuel based on the description... but impossible to diagnose with this data. A video might help.

I assume you are running fuel injection? Pull an injector... and the coil wire. have someone crank the engine while you hold a glass under the injector to see if you are getting a good spray pattern. That is where I would start given what you have checked so far. If it's fuel... then a new filter would be my next move.

I pulled the 7mm plug from the steel feeder line for the fuel injectors and gas easily squirted out when the key was turned on so it's getting gas but not starting.

[emerygt350]

Something didn't die in the flapper did it?

[wonkipop]

try wiggling the EFI harness in the engine bay.
particularly the plug to the AFM. but also wiggle generally along its length.

check for spark.
though it sounds like you are getting that if it fires as you say for a few seconds.

sounds like you have fuel delivery given fuel in the injector rail.
but this does not mean your injectors are firing.

what you describe fits symptomsl for an ARM plug that is not properly seated into the AFM and has come loose. (also check and clean the plug into the ECU at other end). i know you say you have done checking and cleaning but additionally try manipulating the wires where they enter the AFM plug.

the other thing this symptom fits is the engine firing off the cold start injector but the main injectors not firing. this will allow the engine to start and run briefly. 5 seconds or so.

i guess the other thing this could be is the dual relay has given up the ghost.
kind of fits the bill too as its run one day and its all over the next.

[porschetub]

Is the fuel tank clean ,if just average change the filter again ,have you tryed starting fluid to see it it runs longer ?.

[fiacra]

Yes, that is an original three port fuel pump. A pump that old is going to be at the top of my list to check. The dual relay has already been mentioned. A quick test is to prop the flap open in the AFM meter and try to start the car. If it starts, the dual relay is defective. I keep a spare dual relay in the car as they seem to like to leave you on the side of the road. Good luck!

[nmkimosabe]

Yes, that is an original three port fuel pump. A pump that old is going to be at the top of my list to check. The dual relay has already been mentioned. A quick test is to prop the flap open in the AFM meter and try to start the car. If it starts, the dual relay is defective. I keep a spare dual relay in the car as they seem to like to leave you on the side of the road. Good luck!

Thanks for all the suggestions and here's what I have checked:
Cleaned the plug to the AFM and the connector---getting juice
Cleaned the flap in the AFM
Moved the flap with the key on and I could hear the fuel pump
Used starter fluid but no help here

Tomorrow I will do the following per the various suggestions:
Prop AFM flap open and try to start the car
Wiggle the EFI harness
Wiggle the AFM wiring along its length
Clean plug at the ECU

As a newbie 914 owner, where is the dual relay located?

Appreciate all the help!

[fiacra]

It's a good sign you're hearing the fuel pump with the flap held open. Sounds like the pump is working, although fuel pressure remains to be determined. It is amazing how well these old pumps hold up. Mine is still working as well. A replacement sits on the shelf waiting for the inevitable.

The dual relay in my '75 1.8 is mounted on the bottom of the battery tray, on the driver's side of the tray. Yours is probably in the same place, or somewhere nearby. Here's a picture of what you're looking for. The original dual relay is a silver metal box, part number 0332514102, the next generation is a black plastic box, part number 0332514120, and the latest generation is also a black plastic box, part number F026T00064.

[Dave_Darling]

Any fuel coming out of the injectors? Fuel smell at the tailpipe?

It's easy to pull the injectors out of the intake runners; you can put them in jars and look for fuel to spray from them.

L-Jet triggers the injectors based on the ignition points signal. There's a white wire that plugs into the coil's (-) terminal along with the green points wire and tach signal wire (black/purple). That white wire carries the points signal to the FI.

--DD

[nmkimosabe]

It's a good sign you're hearing the fuel pump with the flap held open. Sounds like the pump is working, although fuel pressure remains to be determined. It is amazing how well these old pumps hold up. Mine is still working as well. A replacement sits on the shelf waiting for the inevitable.

The dual relay in my '75 1.8 is mounted on the bottom of the battery tray, on the driver's side of the tray. Yours is probably in the same place, or somewhere nearby. Here's a picture of what you're looking for. The original dual relay is a silver metal box, part number 0332514102, the next generation is a black plastic box, part number 0332514120, and the latest generation is also a black plastic box, part number F026T00064.

This is great and I was able to locate the silver box below the battery tray so it's probably the original. I will order one of these dual relays and try it out or at least have one as a backup. Thanks for the stock numbers and photos!

[fiacra]

Yeah, if you still have the original metal relay I'd for sure have a back-up available. These have become $$, although at least they are available again. For a while they were NLA and some people were asking $450 for them, and some people were actually paying that. You can get one from Jbugs. It will be listed for a 75-79 Beetle. Here's a link:

https://www.jbugs.com/product/071906059.html

If you aren't in a rush then order it from Cars245.com. Search for it by the most recent part number. They ship from Latvia and it will be about $30 less, including shipping. However you run the risk of being caught up in this nonsensical game of WTF tariff nonsense. Currently 10% from Latvia, but tomorrow who knows? Shipping takes about 2-3 weeks. They also sell them on eBay but ordering from them directly is cheaper.

I think it's a good idea to have a back up, but I'd make sure your current relay is defective before rushing to get one. If it turns out to be bad and you have issues getting a new one just send me a PM and we'll work something out. I ran a group buy a while back and have an extra spare that I've been hanging on to in case a fellow member gets into a tight spot. I also have two used relays that I haven't tested yet, and an NOS relay that just came my way.

Good luck, and I hope you get it running today. I see a lot of good advice in previous posts.

[Ishley]

I don't disagree with having an extra relay on hand... but you can throw a lot of parts while looking for possible culprits. I still recommend that you pull the injectors on one side to check for a health spray pattern. This way you know for sure that fuel is getting to the cylinder. The FI fuel system is a loop... pulling off a hose mid stream doesn't tell you enough. A healthy spray pattern will also give you indication of fuel pressure. Your pump could be working but is not strong enough to produce the pattern needed for a health air/fuel mix to keep the engine running.

If there is an issue seen in the injector pattern you can start digging into the why... is it fuel blockage, Injector timing or a wiring issue.

If that looks ok... I would move on to verifying spark and timing. You really want to make sure the basics of fuel, air, spark and timing are all working.

[L-Jet914]

I had this happen to my 74 1.8L recently. My original dual relay went out. I put in another known good used oem metal dual relay and my 914 roared back to life. I now have a few of the newer plastic dual relays set aside ready to go along with a few afms. I've started to collect anything related to the FI system for these cars. I also recently replaced both the FI harness and ignition harness made by Jeff Bowlsby to replace my 50+ year old harness. All if not 99% of my electrical gremlins disappeared related to the FI system etc.