Indexing A arms Options

[bajafreaks]

I'm in the process of installing new a arm bushings and curious about the angle degree requirement. Ian Karr says 21 degrees, I did mark my brackets before taking the old bushings out (a arm assembly out of the car) and the original angle of the brackets are greater than 21 degrees, closer to 40+/- which is a pretty big difference. So when installing new bushings etc. should I go with the 21 or the original number?
I'm also installing new torsion bars stock size, anything I need to know besides just sliding them in, keeping left and right as needed? Thanks

[mepstein]

I'm in the process of installing new a arm bushings and curious about the angle degree requirement. Ian Karr says 21 degrees, I did mark my brackets before taking the old bushings out (a arm assembly out of the car) and the original angle of the brackets are greater than 21 degrees, closer to 40+/- which is a pretty big difference. So when installing new bushings etc. should I go with the 21 or the original number?
I'm also installing new torsion bars stock size, anything I need to know besides just sliding them in, keeping left and right as needed? Thanks

Grease the splines and light grease over the entire bar.

[Superhawk996]

Set at 21 degrees. Originals are worn and slipping.

The angle is established to be near curb height. If you set at original 40 or so you’ll have a ton of preload in the bushing at curb height. Not good for bushing durability and will cause a harsh ride.

[Shivers]

I'm in the process of installing new a arm bushings and curious about the angle degree requirement. Ian Karr says 21 degrees, I did mark my brackets before taking the old bushings out (a arm assembly out of the car) and the original angle of the brackets are greater than 21 degrees, closer to 40+/- which is a pretty big difference. So when installing new bushings etc. should I go with the 21 or the original number?
I'm also installing new torsion bars stock size, anything I need to know besides just sliding them in, keeping left and right as needed? Thanks

@Superhawk996
@bajafreaks
@mepstein
I hope your do not mind Sir, I was going to do this in a couple days. But two is unnecessary if you do not mind.

Fella's My situation is a little different. My front struts the spindles are raised 30 mm and
I have 19mm torsion bars. What I was reading assumed that the control arms
are still in the car so it has the torsion bars swapped and raise the adjuster cap one tooth. But this suspension is all over the house and backyard. Any help would be appreciated.

[bajafreaks]

Set at 21 degrees. Originals are worn and slipping.

The angle is established to be near curb height. If you set at original 40 or so you’ll have a ton of preload in the bushing at curb height. Not good for bushing durability and will cause a harsh ride.

Thats what I assumed, the bushing were really bad. I'll go with the 21 degrees. Thanks, sounds like if I'm off a degree or two its okay, I'm using an app on my phone so...

[Superhawk996]

@shivers

Raising the spindle lowers the car but the end goal is to lower the car without ending up with control arms deep into jounce travel.

So . . . Even though your car will be lower, the control arm positions will basically be stock - ie approximately level to ground at curb. This is what you want to minimize bump steer and for a decent ride.

End result: your bushings would still be set at same 21 degrees.

[Ninja]

When I can I set these style bushings at loaded ride height.

It SHOULD be close to what the factory angles are.

Setting at a specific angle is the PRODUCTION way to do this.

Setting at loaded ride height is the CUSTOM (or maybe PROPER) way of doing this.

This takes more time and car needs to be "on its wheels" with enough room to tighten the suspension. Normally this means alignment table or roll on "storage" type lift.
This is NOT production line friendly.

Setting at the loaded ride height works for almost everything without getting measuring tools out, finding factory angles. etc...

If you've made strange changes, it's the ONLY way in my book. Most of those raised "Safari" style 914s will require this.

Phil is right about the dropped spindles, the reason for dropping is to recreate the original control arm angles at a lower ride height.

If you are close to original factory specs the "set it at this angle" SHOULD work fine.

The loaded ride height way, which takes longer and is bitchier, will center the bushing more accurately on everything at the suspension angles present in the car, not the theoretical angles.

I actually load slightly "heavy" for the torquing. on a 914 400lbs in interior and 50lbs in front and rear trunk would be my loads. I might change that a bit if the owner says "only driver". 200lbs. driver's seat, 50lbs passenger.

This method is the "standard" way most factory manuals suggest today.

BMW even has suggested rest times (4 hours) the car should not move after the bushing mounts have been torqued up...

[Shivers]

@Ninja

Not much is to spec, bushings are polygraphite with grease channels and zerks. They will move. 19 mm torsion bars and the spindles. So I will try the 21 degrees. Thanks

[Superhawk996]

@shivers

Oops - I assumed you’re using rubber bushings.

With poly graphite like you have it doesn’t matter.

In your case the control arm is designed to rotate within the bushing. Whole different animal.

Angles don’t matter in your case.

[Jack Standz]

If you raise the spindles, suggest you come up with a bump steer solution. You can bend the steering arms appropriately or there are other ways to add custom steering arms that will counter the effects of raising the spindles on your struts.

We raised the spindles on our ‘74 19mm (versus yours at 30mm) and this required a bump steer solution. We adjusted the shape of the steering arms to do so. Best wishes for your project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Patrick_139]

I'm in the process of installing new a arm bushings and curious about the angle degree requirement. Ian Karr says 21 degrees, I did mark my brackets before taking the old bushings out (a arm assembly out of the car) and the original angle of the brackets are greater than 21 degrees, closer to 40+/- which is a pretty big difference. So when installing new bushings etc. should I go with the 21 or the original number?
I'm also installing new torsion bars stock size, anything I need to know besides just sliding them in, keeping left and right as needed? Thanks

I recently replaced those bushings as well as the ball joints, tie rod ends, and shock inserts . When I removed the arms I measured the front and rear mount angles and they were around 35 degrees and 28 degrees. I was going to use those measurements for the new bushings install, but the new bushing instructions and the various posts I read called for 21 degrees front and 14 degrees rear. I used those angles and after putting everything back together and I set the ride height so that the jacking donuts were all 6 inches above the ground.

The car sits level and the front is about 1.5 inches lower than before. The top of my front tire now sits about even with the top of the fender which I think is a good look without lowering the car too much. There is absolutely no bump steer or other adverse ride condition.

I assume that those other larger angles might have been better suited to when the car was higher in the front like most 914s from the factory. They look like tail draggers, but I think the reality is they were jacked up in front. See attached photos - Mine is the Ivory one before the suspension work.